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	<title>Comments for Josh McNeill</title>
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	<link>http://www.joshmcneill.com</link>
	<description>Audio Engineer, Composer</description>
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		<title>Comment on Do you even listen to yourself? by The race card, you know, like the joker. &#124; Josh McNeill</title>
		<link>http://www.joshmcneill.com/2011/08/do-you-even-listen-to-yourself/comment-page-1/#comment-3690</link>
		<dc:creator>The race card, you know, like the joker. &#124; Josh McNeill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2011 00:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshmcneill.com/2011/08/do-you-even-listen-to-yourself/#comment-3690</guid>
		<description>[...] stored for posterity on my recorder now, probably as one of those moments when someone simply does not listen to themselves.   Share and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] stored for posterity on my recorder now, probably as one of those moments when someone simply does not listen to themselves.   Share and [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on I&#8217;m in your classrooms, stealing your musics. by All Art is Theft: Theory of a Deadman vs Our Lady Peace &#124; Josh McNeill</title>
		<link>http://www.joshmcneill.com/2011/09/im-in-your-classrooms-stealing-your-musics/comment-page-1/#comment-3629</link>
		<dc:creator>All Art is Theft: Theory of a Deadman vs Our Lady Peace &#124; Josh McNeill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2011 05:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshmcneill.com/2011/09/im-in-your-classrooms-stealing-your-musics/#comment-3629</guid>
		<description>[...] the spirit of the idea, I&#8217;m stealing a tag that I linked to in another post about stealing music and art and all that jazz. This strikes me as an idea hard to argue with. Of course art is theft. Artists aren&#8217;t [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the spirit of the idea, I&#8217;m stealing a tag that I linked to in another post about stealing music and art and all that jazz. This strikes me as an idea hard to argue with. Of course art is theft. Artists aren&#8217;t [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on New Piano Doodle. by Meadow</title>
		<link>http://www.joshmcneill.com/2010/03/piano-doodle/comment-page-1/#comment-3065</link>
		<dc:creator>Meadow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshmcneill.com/?p=228#comment-3065</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not eailys impressed. . . but that&#039;s impressing me! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not eailys impressed. . . but that&#8217;s impressing me! <img src='http://www.joshmcneill.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Classical study halls. by Prue</title>
		<link>http://www.joshmcneill.com/2010/12/classical-study-halls/comment-page-1/#comment-3034</link>
		<dc:creator>Prue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 05:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshmcneill.com/?p=262#comment-3034</guid>
		<description>Kewl you should come up with that. Excellten!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kewl you should come up with that. Excellten!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Oh, that ironic classical scene. by Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.joshmcneill.com/2010/11/ironic-classical-scene/comment-page-1/#comment-2856</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 19:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshmcneill.com/?p=255#comment-2856</guid>
		<description>To quote from Denver Post

&quot;With many audiences today knowing little about Beethoven and Mozart or major or minor keys, the idea of simply putting together a musically compatible program doesn&#039;t always work anymore.&quot;

(Read more: Classical music is going new places to lure new faces - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/music/ci_16820160?source=rss#ixzz18Iz2uSVx)

Similarly, one cannot expect a person who knows not a word in the English language to understand a Shakespeare Sonnet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To quote from Denver Post</p>
<p>&#8220;With many audiences today knowing little about Beethoven and Mozart or major or minor keys, the idea of simply putting together a musically compatible program doesn&#8217;t always work anymore.&#8221;</p>
<p>(Read more: Classical music is going new places to lure new faces &#8211; The Denver Post <a href="http://www.denverpost.com/music/ci_16820160?source=rss#ixzz18Iz2uSVx" rel="nofollow">http://www.denverpost.com/music/ci_16820160?source=rss#ixzz18Iz2uSVx</a>)</p>
<p>Similarly, one cannot expect a person who knows not a word in the English language to understand a Shakespeare Sonnet.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Oh, that ironic classical scene. by Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.joshmcneill.com/2010/11/ironic-classical-scene/comment-page-1/#comment-2814</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Dec 2010 02:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshmcneill.com/?p=255#comment-2814</guid>
		<description>Will, your comment got caught in my spam filter, sorry &#039;bout that.

I apologize if it seemed like I was saying that you, or anyone else in the classical world, is elitist. My point was simply to draw attention to things that, viewed by those who aren&#039;t involved, can inadvertently perpetuate a bad image. The fact that this is the opposite of what you intended to do is what makes it so unfortunate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will, your comment got caught in my spam filter, sorry &#8217;bout that.</p>
<p>I apologize if it seemed like I was saying that you, or anyone else in the classical world, is elitist. My point was simply to draw attention to things that, viewed by those who aren&#8217;t involved, can inadvertently perpetuate a bad image. The fact that this is the opposite of what you intended to do is what makes it so unfortunate.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Oh, that ironic classical scene. by Reach out and touch someone &#124; Analekta blog &#124; the classical music meeting place</title>
		<link>http://www.joshmcneill.com/2010/11/ironic-classical-scene/comment-page-1/#comment-2812</link>
		<dc:creator>Reach out and touch someone &#124; Analekta blog &#124; the classical music meeting place</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2010 13:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshmcneill.com/?p=255#comment-2812</guid>
		<description>[...] You can read it all here&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] You can read it all here&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Oh, that ironic classical scene. by Guy Sigsworth</title>
		<link>http://www.joshmcneill.com/2010/11/ironic-classical-scene/comment-page-1/#comment-2811</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy Sigsworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2010 11:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshmcneill.com/?p=255#comment-2811</guid>
		<description>Adorno frequently referred to the &quot;Regression Of Hearing&quot;, which he felt exposure to pop music engendered.

I don&#039;t know if our hearing is regressing, but it&#039;s probably changing. Regressing in some ways, progressing in others.

Here&#039;s one way our hearing is changing, and maybe even progressing:

Exposure to a near-infinite supply of recorded music makes us incredibly sensitive to timbre and encoded timbal meaning. If you&#039;re reasonably well-listened, you can hear just one note of a guitar, drum kit or synthesiser and extract an incredible amount of information from it. This kind of guitar sound instantly suggests surf music of the 1960s, that one Nu Metal of the early 2000s, and so on. It&#039;s not just the ways of playing the instruments we log, but the varying ways they&#039;ve been recorded and presented to us going all the way back to the 78 era.

All pop plays with such timbral associations. A modern listener hears a Lady Gaga song. She immediately notices: It&#039;s got that fizzy &quot;Euro&quot; synthesiser sound that Usher brought across the Atlantic about ten years ago. But the drums don&#039;t sound like Euro or R&#039;n&#039;B drum machine samples. They have Metallica-style splashy open hihats, and a stadium rock ambience. So what genre is this? Stadium Rock / R&#039;n&#039;B / Euro Disco?

(One modern artist who, for me, plays with those pop timbal signifiers on a very high artistic level is Burial. There&#039;s a whole PhD thesis to write about his recordings. This blog post probably isn&#039;t the place to start.) 

For comparison let&#039;s imagine a sensitive listener of Bach&#039;s time, hearing the last movement of Brandenburg 5. She notices it&#039;s a gigue - a dance movement (though it&#039;s far too complicated to actually dance to). And it&#039;s also a fugue. And a concerto grosso. And it&#039;s also got the ABA form of a da capo operatic aria. Oh, and it&#039;s also using the harpsichord as a solo instrument, which is rather unusual.

Music historians have discovered that Bach took possession of a brand new harpsichord around the time he wrote Brandenburg 5, and the desire to show it off may have inspired the concerto. So the new sound of that instrument was probably a factor. Even allowing for that, it seems to me that far more of modern musical meaning is carried purely by timbre than it was in Bach&#039;s day, where formal, structural and harmonic elements did more of the communicating.

And that brings me on to one way our hearing might be regressing:

If we think of a great instrumental masterpiece from the western classical tradition - let&#039;s say Beethoven&#039;s Hammerklavier Sonata - it requires a particularly detailed, intense concentration from the listener. There&#039;s a complex, yet purely musical, narrative structure. You have to follow the way themes and motifs are created, broken down, recombined, reharmonised, and how they mark the progress of an unfolding tonal structure.

Today we have modern music that&#039;s easy to listen to - like, say James Blunt. And we have music that&#039;s difficult to listen to - like, say Merzbow. But the way Merzbow is difficult is completely different from the way late Beethoven is difficult. Merzbow is difficult because the timbres are harsh and abrasive, and it&#039;s a kind of endurance test to get through the music. Beethoven&#039;s difficulty is a result of intense narrative complexity. Merzbow just isn&#039;t about that.

I can&#039;t think of any modern music that&#039;s difficult at all in the Beethoven sense. I don&#039;t even think the post-Darmstadt music of Boulez or Stockhausen is complicated in the Beethoven sense, because the structural processes are largely inaudible. In practice, I can only listen to that music with a kind of naive wonderment. With Boulez I mostly notice his ear for timbre - lots of bright and brilliant sounds trilling away. The Beethovenian &quot;structural hearing&quot; isn&#039;t needed. Not for me, anyway.

And this puzzles me. Because the narratives in plenty of TV miniseries - like &quot;Lost&quot; or &quot;Battlestar Galactica&quot; - require viewers to follow complex parallel plot lines. So have we lost something?

Just thinking aloud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adorno frequently referred to the &#8220;Regression Of Hearing&#8221;, which he felt exposure to pop music engendered.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if our hearing is regressing, but it&#8217;s probably changing. Regressing in some ways, progressing in others.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s one way our hearing is changing, and maybe even progressing:</p>
<p>Exposure to a near-infinite supply of recorded music makes us incredibly sensitive to timbre and encoded timbal meaning. If you&#8217;re reasonably well-listened, you can hear just one note of a guitar, drum kit or synthesiser and extract an incredible amount of information from it. This kind of guitar sound instantly suggests surf music of the 1960s, that one Nu Metal of the early 2000s, and so on. It&#8217;s not just the ways of playing the instruments we log, but the varying ways they&#8217;ve been recorded and presented to us going all the way back to the 78 era.</p>
<p>All pop plays with such timbral associations. A modern listener hears a Lady Gaga song. She immediately notices: It&#8217;s got that fizzy &#8220;Euro&#8221; synthesiser sound that Usher brought across the Atlantic about ten years ago. But the drums don&#8217;t sound like Euro or R&#8217;n'B drum machine samples. They have Metallica-style splashy open hihats, and a stadium rock ambience. So what genre is this? Stadium Rock / R&#8217;n'B / Euro Disco?</p>
<p>(One modern artist who, for me, plays with those pop timbal signifiers on a very high artistic level is Burial. There&#8217;s a whole PhD thesis to write about his recordings. This blog post probably isn&#8217;t the place to start.) </p>
<p>For comparison let&#8217;s imagine a sensitive listener of Bach&#8217;s time, hearing the last movement of Brandenburg 5. She notices it&#8217;s a gigue &#8211; a dance movement (though it&#8217;s far too complicated to actually dance to). And it&#8217;s also a fugue. And a concerto grosso. And it&#8217;s also got the ABA form of a da capo operatic aria. Oh, and it&#8217;s also using the harpsichord as a solo instrument, which is rather unusual.</p>
<p>Music historians have discovered that Bach took possession of a brand new harpsichord around the time he wrote Brandenburg 5, and the desire to show it off may have inspired the concerto. So the new sound of that instrument was probably a factor. Even allowing for that, it seems to me that far more of modern musical meaning is carried purely by timbre than it was in Bach&#8217;s day, where formal, structural and harmonic elements did more of the communicating.</p>
<p>And that brings me on to one way our hearing might be regressing:</p>
<p>If we think of a great instrumental masterpiece from the western classical tradition &#8211; let&#8217;s say Beethoven&#8217;s Hammerklavier Sonata &#8211; it requires a particularly detailed, intense concentration from the listener. There&#8217;s a complex, yet purely musical, narrative structure. You have to follow the way themes and motifs are created, broken down, recombined, reharmonised, and how they mark the progress of an unfolding tonal structure.</p>
<p>Today we have modern music that&#8217;s easy to listen to &#8211; like, say James Blunt. And we have music that&#8217;s difficult to listen to &#8211; like, say Merzbow. But the way Merzbow is difficult is completely different from the way late Beethoven is difficult. Merzbow is difficult because the timbres are harsh and abrasive, and it&#8217;s a kind of endurance test to get through the music. Beethoven&#8217;s difficulty is a result of intense narrative complexity. Merzbow just isn&#8217;t about that.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t think of any modern music that&#8217;s difficult at all in the Beethoven sense. I don&#8217;t even think the post-Darmstadt music of Boulez or Stockhausen is complicated in the Beethoven sense, because the structural processes are largely inaudible. In practice, I can only listen to that music with a kind of naive wonderment. With Boulez I mostly notice his ear for timbre &#8211; lots of bright and brilliant sounds trilling away. The Beethovenian &#8220;structural hearing&#8221; isn&#8217;t needed. Not for me, anyway.</p>
<p>And this puzzles me. Because the narratives in plenty of TV miniseries &#8211; like &#8220;Lost&#8221; or &#8220;Battlestar Galactica&#8221; &#8211; require viewers to follow complex parallel plot lines. So have we lost something?</p>
<p>Just thinking aloud.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Oh, that ironic classical scene. by Will</title>
		<link>http://www.joshmcneill.com/2010/11/ironic-classical-scene/comment-page-1/#comment-2810</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Nov 2010 20:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshmcneill.com/?p=255#comment-2810</guid>
		<description>Hi Josh,
Thought I would chime in to defend my comments.  I pretty much meant the opposite of what you interpreted.  As a 22-year-old music student who writes music criticism for fun, and as someone who dresses down as much as possible for concerts (generally jeans and a sweater or collared shirt), I wouldn&#039;t consider myself too much of an elitist.  

When I commented about culturally refined, I actually meant to imply that the audience seemed like people who went to art galleries, attended theater, and maybe checked out the occasional jazz club too---the kind of young people which the American classical scene should attract but usually doesn&#039;t.  The young people attending average classical concerts in America are almost always music students or people in the biz.  I am very happy (as a music student myself) that these people are into classical music, but to renew an aging audience you need not just aficionados and industry folks but people who consider the attending the symphony and opera part of a larger set of cultural obligations that includes listening to Radiohead, going to the Museum of Modern Art, and reading a newspaper.  So yes, it&#039;s elitist in the sense that you want to attract intelligent intellectuals.

And what I meant by well-dressed was the same--that they didn&#039;t look like music students (not to knock music students, but we tend to dress down when we go to concerts), but that they looked like young professionals---the people any orchestra needs to buy subscriptions and perhaps become patrons later in life.  Orchestras need money; well dressed people tend to have it.  It&#039;s a match made in heaven.  I don&#039;t care what people wear at the orchestra, as long as it&#039;s not distracting (giant hats that block people&#039;s view).  

So I&#039;m not implying that people are not cultured if they&#039;re not attending the symphony.  I&#039;m implying that I hope we can ATTRACT regular cultured people to attend the symphony--something which seems to happen in Berlin.  There&#039;s no one ingredient towards being cultured, but I can only hope that going to an orchestra concert or opera can be one of the ingredients towards being cultured.

And if you read the rest of my post, I agree with you.  Orchestras need to reach out to the cultured populace, because the cultured populace is not coming to the orchestra.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Josh,<br />
Thought I would chime in to defend my comments.  I pretty much meant the opposite of what you interpreted.  As a 22-year-old music student who writes music criticism for fun, and as someone who dresses down as much as possible for concerts (generally jeans and a sweater or collared shirt), I wouldn&#8217;t consider myself too much of an elitist.  </p>
<p>When I commented about culturally refined, I actually meant to imply that the audience seemed like people who went to art galleries, attended theater, and maybe checked out the occasional jazz club too&#8212;the kind of young people which the American classical scene should attract but usually doesn&#8217;t.  The young people attending average classical concerts in America are almost always music students or people in the biz.  I am very happy (as a music student myself) that these people are into classical music, but to renew an aging audience you need not just aficionados and industry folks but people who consider the attending the symphony and opera part of a larger set of cultural obligations that includes listening to Radiohead, going to the Museum of Modern Art, and reading a newspaper.  So yes, it&#8217;s elitist in the sense that you want to attract intelligent intellectuals.</p>
<p>And what I meant by well-dressed was the same&#8211;that they didn&#8217;t look like music students (not to knock music students, but we tend to dress down when we go to concerts), but that they looked like young professionals&#8212;the people any orchestra needs to buy subscriptions and perhaps become patrons later in life.  Orchestras need money; well dressed people tend to have it.  It&#8217;s a match made in heaven.  I don&#8217;t care what people wear at the orchestra, as long as it&#8217;s not distracting (giant hats that block people&#8217;s view).  </p>
<p>So I&#8217;m not implying that people are not cultured if they&#8217;re not attending the symphony.  I&#8217;m implying that I hope we can ATTRACT regular cultured people to attend the symphony&#8211;something which seems to happen in Berlin.  There&#8217;s no one ingredient towards being cultured, but I can only hope that going to an orchestra concert or opera can be one of the ingredients towards being cultured.</p>
<p>And if you read the rest of my post, I agree with you.  Orchestras need to reach out to the cultured populace, because the cultured populace is not coming to the orchestra.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Jim Cramer of CNBC suggests illegally manipulating the market. by Our illuminating jester. &#124; Josh McNeill</title>
		<link>http://www.joshmcneill.com/2009/03/jim-cramer-of-cnbc-suggests-illegally-manipulating-the-market/comment-page-1/#comment-2570</link>
		<dc:creator>Our illuminating jester. &#124; Josh McNeill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshmcneill.com/blog/?p=105#comment-2570</guid>
		<description>[...] here&#8217;s a follow up to the last blog I posted, having to do with Jim Cramer of CNBC suggesting that hedge fund managers should manipulate the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] here&#8217;s a follow up to the last blog I posted, having to do with Jim Cramer of CNBC suggesting that hedge fund managers should manipulate the [...]</p>
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